Physical Chess
"Another important skill that Keane said is necessary for success in jujitsu is strategy. He said it is imperative for the competitor to always plan his next move.
'This is very much like chess,' Keane said. 'Good people think two to three moves ahead.'"
Hat tip: The Technician Online
And, so it goes. I have joined fellow knight J'adoube in the pursuit of martial arts (although I'm no where near the proficiency level of J'adoube who is a Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do, if I understand that correctly).
I'm a big fan of Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) and have chosen the art which appears to be the most effective for self-defense all things considered. That is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (BJJ), because most fights end up on the ground. I plan to complement this training starting perhaps in a year with Tae Kwon Do training, so I can learn some kicking and striking techniques as well.
One other thing that attracted me to BJJ is its similiarites to chess. In the beginning of a match or fight, the two opponents square off and are basically free to make whatever moves they desire (just like a chess opening). Next, comes the clinch phase. This is like jockeying for position in the middlegame. Finally, there is ground game, where both opponents struggle for dominance (kind of like tactics in the middlegame as well as the endgame).
I had my first lesson last night, and I (thanks again to chess) am pretty aware of my shortcomings and strengths. Now, I will have a lot of hard work ahead of me to earn my blue belt.
'This is very much like chess,' Keane said. 'Good people think two to three moves ahead.'"
Hat tip: The Technician Online
And, so it goes. I have joined fellow knight J'adoube in the pursuit of martial arts (although I'm no where near the proficiency level of J'adoube who is a Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do, if I understand that correctly).
I'm a big fan of Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) and have chosen the art which appears to be the most effective for self-defense all things considered. That is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (BJJ), because most fights end up on the ground. I plan to complement this training starting perhaps in a year with Tae Kwon Do training, so I can learn some kicking and striking techniques as well.
One other thing that attracted me to BJJ is its similiarites to chess. In the beginning of a match or fight, the two opponents square off and are basically free to make whatever moves they desire (just like a chess opening). Next, comes the clinch phase. This is like jockeying for position in the middlegame. Finally, there is ground game, where both opponents struggle for dominance (kind of like tactics in the middlegame as well as the endgame).
I had my first lesson last night, and I (thanks again to chess) am pretty aware of my shortcomings and strengths. Now, I will have a lot of hard work ahead of me to earn my blue belt.
posted by CelticDeath at 9:12 AM
14 Comments:
Cool I have about 13 years training in various styles. Ground fighting is just one aspect of fighting though. Would you try to master chess by concentrating on the end game? I would try to find a school and style that is well rounded. Most Tae Kwon Do schools teach mostly sport karate or it is watered down. I studied it first. If the school you are at does not teach counter strikes (breaking the fang) then I would move on. The last 2 schools I studied at taught Kali based martial arts. The last school was unbelievable. After 9 years studying I went to the school to check it out and was blown away. www.combatexpert.com
High kicks are bad news for the most part and jump kicks are supposed to be for taking down a mounted opponent. The grappling and ground fighting are good but only a fraction of what you need. Good luck in your martial pursuits.
Oh yeah I forgot to mention that you can really only fight one opponant on the ground. What happens when you guys are all tied up and his buddy(ies) come along?
Thanks, phorku. After watching several MMA bouts where one opp is chiefly a striker (with no grappling skills) and the other is chiefkly a grappler (with no striking skills), it appears that the grappler often dominates. So, by working on my grappling skills first, I want to develop at least some competency in this important skillset. Fortunately, where I have begun training, a variety of skills are taught - both grappling and striking. My BJJ sensei is a black belt in both ju-jitsu and TKD and teaches both at his dojo. I hope to add TKD skills to my repertoire eventually, as there are (in addition to the striking and kicking) important self-defense techniques vs. an armed attacker that are covered there. So, ideally, I will eventually receive a more well-rounded training.
Isn't it interesting, though, how (judging from our small sample size) chess appears to be an interest of those in martial arts - and vice versa?
phorku, re: multiple opps
From what I've read, fighting multiple opps is extremely difficult no matter what discipline you are trained in. Even with TKD, you can get gang tackled and end up on the ground. So, that's a very dangerous situation, no matter what!
Just wondering... Living in a place like Normal, Illinois, how often do you find yourself being physically attacked by gangs of armed men?
Oh, Normal's twin sister, Bloomington, has it's seedier areas. Bloomington-Normal is, overall, a pretty decent place to live. However, it is also a central hub to more metro areas like St. Louis, Chicago, and Indianapolis. This is great for all types of business (including the darker ones). So, there are the occasional killings in town that occur.
If I had to define my specific reasons for pursuing martial arts, I would have to say that there were three main and near-equal factors driving it:
1. Knowledge that I'm growing old and more vulnerable should a physical attack occur.
2. Father/daughter bonding, as she desires to learn the discipline to defend herself from school bullies.
3. I love the MMA sport!!!
phorku, that Nightbreed stuff looks AWESOME!!! Too bad we don't have one around here!
I have done Jiu Jitsu and Judo long ago. That gave me very strong hands. Untill today that is handy when carrying two crates of beer. In chess it leads only to touching the wrong piece though. Hens j'adoube:)
Cool. Good luck in your MA pursuit.
PS
CD,
I am actually a Black Belt in Shotokhan, which is, if you travel to Japan and study karate, the style most usually taught. I now teach in a school that is based in the Seido style - mostly a combination of Muy Thai and kickboxing. I'm also studying Kendo - a little more exotic, but very effective - there's always a stick lying around you can pick up. . .I am becoming certified by the Oklahoma Pro Boxing Commission to judge MMA under two different organizations. In fact, I'm judging again on Oct 15. It should be a blast.
I've read all the various comments and I can tell you that all styles work and they all work well if you master any one of them. None are superior to another - each has it's strengths and weaknesses. I heard a teacher say the other day that such and such Kenpo punch is more powerful than such and such punch in Tae Kwon Do because of yadda yadda yadda. Bull. Done properly, every equivalent punch done in any system is equally powerful.
Learn what you are most comfortable with and master it.
I am assuming you are learning the Gracie style since you say that you are learning Brazilian JJ. It is very effective. You should be well suited to fighting any style once your master it.
I will agree with Phorku and say that Tae Kwon Do has become more sport than fighting - almost gymnastics - as a reult of it being an Olympic sport now. Still, it does work if you learn the more traditional techniques and forget about the "Extreme" version. . .
You are right that a lot of chess players are also martial artists.
Train hard.
Thanks, Jim. You and Phorku are right about the style not always being a factor. I watched the most recent episode of UFC2 on SpikeTV, and basically a street fighter defeated a black belt in BJJ. So, it just goes down to how well the fighter implements the style in which they're trained (like how well we play the openings we use as well as the positions that result in chess).
The BJJ I'll be training in is not in a Gracie school, but I believe my instructor is Gracie trained (I don't remember 100% - but I do know he kicked my arse this past Monday without trying hard).
I went to the Nightbreed site, wtachced the videos and read the claims and I have to say I'm. . .underwhelmed.
Anytime anybody makes the claim that "you will forget everything you previously learned and find this technique to be the real deal" is full of. . .well, bull.
No kicks? Why take the most powerful, and dangerous, techniques out of your arsenal. Muy Thai style roundhouse kicks are devastating and can leave an attacker one-legged and open for other attacks.
The Nightbreed style may be effective against untrained fighters but I promise you that a well trained kickboxer, karate-ka or grappling fighter will not get his butt kicked by these people. In fact, their style is so one dimensional it falls prey to a lot of counter-attacks.
Anyway. . .just my 2 cents worth. . .
I've been doing some more online research, and I've come across Matt Furey, who really hypes his videos, etc. It seems that there's a racket side to martial arts, as well.
Anyhoo, the guy I'm training under just had two of his students win NAGA championships in Chicago, and one other who placed 2nd. So, going by results like those, I have confidence that my sensei will train me well. The rest is up to me. I spent an hour last night practicing side breakfalls and Upas. Man, do I have a long way to go!
Jim,
I agree that there is a lot of hype on the website and that the low roundhouse kicks are a powerful weapon. I do think he trimmed a little meat off with the fat. There are some things that I have kept from my other styles of training that I belive have value. However the training is not one dimensional and is very intense. Like I said I went there after 9 years of training in various styles and was totally blown away. The training does include grappling, trapping and ground fighting. I think you would be quite suprised by the training. If you ever get back up this way I encourage you to take a trial lesson or check out one of the classes in person. Additionally you contradict your self between your 2 posts. In one you say no style is superior and that the mastery is what is important. Then you turn around and say that the nightbreed style is inferior. I can tell you that the training methods there increased my skill far beyond what any other school I have checked out or studied at could have. The strikes are thrown at 75-100% full power and at full speed, we do dizzy drills, practice on plastic sheets over carpeting to simulate ice and a variety of other creative drills.
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